Picture of kevin corkill
Fear of convention
by kevin corkill - Monday, 14 June 2010, 07:25 PM
 
 Im kinda new into reading about article v but it really intrigues me because of the possiblilities. Ive been trying to do my homework and reading up on the pros and cons and one of the biggest cons i keep reading about is that one has never been held so nobody really knows the rules. discrepencies on how many things can be addressed at a time, time limits, who the delegates are? like i said im new here so be gentle but wouldn't it be best and easiest to start rock bottom and hold the first with one thing on the agenda maybe setting up the groundwork for future ones it seems to me like enough people are dissatisfied with congress and the way things are going that would be a slam dunk and at least let em know we paved the way to do some real good? if i am wrong let me know
Picture of FOAVC Administrator
Re: Fear of convention
by FOAVC Administrator - Monday, 14 June 2010, 08:43 PM
 

Kevin Corkill,

That's not a bad idea.
I'd bet TERM-LIMITS would be a slam-dunk.

But what is very badly needed is some sort of campaign finance reform.
As it is now, the government is essentially FOR-SALE.

90% of elections are won by the candidate that spends the most money (usually the incumbent).

99.7%
of all 200 million eligible voters are vastly out-spent by a very tiny 0.3% of the wealthiest voters, who make a whopping 83% of all federal campaign donations of $200 or more.

Or perhaps a Balanced Budget Amendment?
It appears by the time we get a Balanced Budget Amendment (if ever), it may be too late. The massive debt burden may already be untenable?

As for constitutional conventions, they happen often. The United States have had numerous constitutional conventions (http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=13).

The fear about Article V is unnecessary, because Article V still requires 3/4 of all states to all vote for any amendment to ratify it and become law:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

Therefore, in my opinion, I think many of the people who try to fuel the fear of Article V like the status quo. Congress almost certainly will never reform itself, or police their own ranks.

But, if Congress is allowed to continue to blatantly violate Article V of the United States Constitution, then what's next?

Picture of Nick Polimeni
Re: Fear of convention
by Nick Polimeni - Wednesday, 16 June 2010, 09:44 AM
 
We can do better than that, as mentioned elsewhere in these forums. Check out this article I wrote and posted in a couple of sites:
An open call to an on-line Constitutional Article V Convention has been sent to all citizens by Judge Thomas Brennan
In what can be seen in the spirit of the Declaration of independence, “… hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness,” after decades and decades of congressional refusal to comply with the Constitutional provisions of Article V, whereas in excess of the required number of petitions for an Article V conventions have been filed with the Federal government, an on-line Article V constitutional conventions has been convoked by Judge Thomas Brennan.
Few need be given reasons, which are clearly visible throughout the media, and embodied in decades of illegal actions, by the government, for such action. Suffice it to say that government as it stands has ceased to function with the purposes charged upon it by the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Therefore this convention takes onto itself the task refused by the duly obligated legislative bodies of our government.
The outcome of such convention is predictable towards either of two possible end results: a) Congress will retrieve onto itself what is legally its duty and function, and call such a convention, or b) the convention will continue in perpetuity with unpredictable and unfathomable results.
Such convention, rooted in the proverbial placement of your money where your heart is, has the power of conviction and dedication required to make fundamental changes, to re-establish the principles of the Declaration of Independence. It has the power to lay the foundation to resolve myriad of problems currently pursued with limited success by hundreds of thousands of activist citizen.
The convention will make clear that, while those who would destroy our principles keep us divided by labeling our positions, the astronomical majority of citizens stand behind the principles which brought about the birth of our nation in the first place, to find at the opposite side, only those whose intentions towards the survival of our nation are questionable.
All citizens are invited to become delegates, have their voice heard in the remaking of our nation. http://www.convusa.com/ . You’re welcome to sign up today.
Nick Polimeni
Delegate, Nevada



Picture of Michael Bindner
Re: Fear of convention
by Michael Bindner - Wednesday, 23 June 2010, 10:17 AM
 

I am not sure that people fear a convention.  Rather, I think that most state parties are organized to prevent it.  The sin qua non of the movement is that state legislators will tire of federal interference and become amenable to calling a convention in a way that Congress cannot reform (with an identical call within a two year period).   Of course, having Congress pass legislation stating how a call would work would make it easier to call one.  When there are no rules, it is easy to ignore calls.  While almost every state has called for one time or another for a convention, such calls have been deemed to expire and no one has told the Congress any differently.

Irregardless of the rules, state and especially congressional district political committees all but make a convention call impossible.  Most state legislators and mayors want to one day run for Congress.  Members of Congress are no fools, they have made sure that their states are gerrymandered to keep their jobs and that the state assembly districts are also gerrymandered along similar lines.  This means that in VA08, where I live, for example, there are multiple state assembly districts and most of them have members of the same party as the Congressman, Jim Moran.  Indeed, for a long time, one of the Delegates was his brother, Brian, who only resigned to run for Governor.  These folks meet every quarter, along with other party operatives, in what is called the District 8 Democratic Committee.  Every congressional district has one.  While I am sure that there are districts where the Congressman is one party and the majority of state assembly members are another, I suspect that this is a rare event since they are elected by the same partisan voters.

To call or accept a call for convention, you need to capture a majority of the assembly members in 2/3rds of the states. For all practical purposes, this means that you need the congress members of at least two thirds of the states to go along with your call - which may be more doable than a 2/3rds majority of Congress - since the larger states may not consent to a call - however you need at least half of Congress to be in that block as well.

We can't do this by publicity stunt.  We need to identify members congressional district by congressional district - and given the current majority in power (the Democrats) and the tenor of most convention amendments (Republican/Libertarian/Constitutionalist), success is not likely.

It won't occur from appeals to truth or justice, but by doing hard counts and getting announced commitments at both the state and federal levels.

I suggest it is probably easier to organize a new party - or to capture one - although Sarah Palin & Co. are trying their best to sabatoge the GOP brand name.

Even though Term Limits and Campaign finance are the most obvious issues, which could even get some Democratic support (especially the latter), I suspect that no set of incumbents at the state or federal level will adopt them.